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Talyc'jatne
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re: Does God Set Us Up?

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Let's open a new discussion. I am going to set a few rules or guidelines. This is strictly a theoretical question to get our minds grinding on something other than SWToR/GW2.

First off, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. There shall be no right or wrong answer, unless it is taken back to the Bible and verified/discredited.

Secondly, anyone is permitted to state something without believing it themselves. For example, one may think it is good to abstain from eating donuts, but still eat donuts. This doesn't make this person evil or bad, or one that needs to be kicked from the community.

I would hope that due to this being a Christian community, we are able to discuss matters openly. Any criticism shall be viewed as constructive criticism and/or as a joke. Please do not feel offended while reading any of this thread.

TOPIC: Many of us have felt the trials and tribulations of some issue lately. I noticed that the Bible Study last night was on trials and tribulations. I am not sure if this was answered last night or not, but I want to discuss God and getting closer to Him.

Does God set us up for trials and tribulations? Or is it all the act of the Devil? What does being saved mean to a non-believer?

DISCLAIMER: By posting on this thread, you accept the previous rules and see that people are entitled to their own opinion, are able to say what they please, and will not take offense to anything heard(rather read).


Last edited by Talyc'jatne on Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
dchsknight
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Wildbillkickoff
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re: Does God Set Us Up?

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Excellent question, Thobi. I also missed the Bible study, but I have studied the Bible. So, without further ado...

Logically speaking, if we can all agree that God is all powerful and all knowing, then it is illogical to assume that anything happens without his consent and foreknowledge. Satan can do nothing without God's knowledge and consent, which we see in Job chapter 1, and again when Jesus was tempted.

So, yes. I'm content with the idea that God is the source of all of our trials and tribulations. He uses them to draw me closer to Himself, and since the whole point of our existence is to glorify God, I'm thankful that He has chosen to use me for His purposes, and that The Lord of the Universe desires my companionship so much that He sets up trials to draw me closer to Himself.


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dchsknight
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Talyc'jatne
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Ahh I forgot about that James verse! Good to bring it back....

When I read Job, I get the idea that God sets us up to test our loyalty.

Job is a just man, a man that is known for his service and loyalty to the Lord. In 1:1, we read that Job "was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil."

In verse 8 is where I get the impression that God actually sets us up. We read, "The Lord said to Satan, 'Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.'"

Then later on, in verse 12, God is giving Job's possessions over to Satan. "Behold, all that he has is in your power, only do not put forth your hand on him."

Notice how it is written. The LORD SAID TO SATAN. Satan didn't ask. Satan didn't initiate anything. The Lord initiated Job's trials. God PERMITTED Satan to do as he pleased with Job, except for "do not put forth your hand on him," which I take as death. The only instruction that Satan is given from God is not to kill Job.
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re: Does God Set Us Up?

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dchsknight wrote:
Wildbillkickoff wrote:
Excellent question, Thobi. I also missed the Bible study, but I have studied the Bible. So, without further ado...

Logically speaking, if we can all agree that God is all powerful and all knowing, then it is illogical to assume that anything happens without his consent and foreknowledge. Satan can do nothing without God's knowledge and consent, which we see in Job chapter 1, and again when Jesus was tempted.

So, yes. I'm content with the idea that God is the source of all of our trials and tribulations. He uses them to draw me closer to Himself, and since the whole point of our existence is to glorify God, I'm thankful that He has chosen to use me for His purposes, and that The Lord of the Universe desires my companionship so much that He sets up trials to draw me closer to Himself.


James 1:13-15
"13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

disagrees with you.


Are you saying trials are temptations? I think trials and tribulations, being things that happen that are difficult for us, are not always temptations.

The blind man was blind. I bet that was a trial. God did it for His glory. Seems to me that God orchestrated that.

Jesus died on the cross. That was most definitely a trial. Again, caused by God.


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Talyc'jatne
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dchsknight wrote:
God did nothing to Job to warrant the reaction that God was given by Job. It was his own anger.


I shall copy from Bible Gateway and post the ESV version.

Job 1:6-12-
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” 8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

So God, who gave the authority to Satan to test Job, did nothing?

By that logic, Hitler did nothing to the Jews during the Holocaust of WW2. It was the military men who followed the orders that carry the blame and burdens of the 6 million Jews.
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Talyc'jatne
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Quote:
What does being saved mean to a non-believer?


I ask to get an understanding of how a non-believer should be presented the Gospel.

Going further into it, though slightly off of the original topic, How can you preach to an audience you do not know? It's easier to preach to the choir. But that isn't our task. Our task is to let the whole world know. That includes non-believers.

So what does being saved mean to a non-believer? How would you present being saved to someone who doesn't believe in God?
Talyc'jatne
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dchsknight wrote:
You can not compare Hitler to God, that is just ludicrous...


Sure I can. Just did...All men are created in the image of God, and therefore have similar properties, if you will, that are shared.

What I was comparing was the relationship of authority shared between God and Hitler. God is the Commander of Chief of this universe. He is the Creator. He speaks, and the world responds. God's creation is subordinate to God.

Hitler commanded his military too. He had many subordinates beneath him. I was using this as an example to state the point, "From the previous logic, the one who gives the order is not to blame, but the one who carriers out the order."
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Wildbillkickoff
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Excellent question, Thobi. I also missed the Bible study, but I have studied the Bible. So, without further ado...

Logically speaking, if we can all agree that God is all powerful and all knowing, then it is illogical to assume that anything happens without his consent and foreknowledge. Satan can do nothing without God's knowledge and consent, which we see in Job chapter 1, and again when Jesus was tempted.

So, yes. I'm content with the idea that God is the source of all of our trials and tribulations. He uses them to draw me closer to Himself, and since the whole point of our existence is to glorify God, I'm thankful that He has chosen to use me for His purposes, and that The Lord of the Universe desires my companionship so much that He sets up trials to draw me closer to Himself.


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