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RedeemedJedi7
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re: Just a Random Thought About General MMO's

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From being kind of burnt out lately in SWTOR because of the daily/gear grind I just got this sudden desire to wish I could make games so I could make an MMO whose end game wasn't get the first tier to do the first lvl of raid, then rinse and repeat as you lvl in the difficulty. This goes for pvp as well. I think that Guild Wars 2 has less emphasis on this but I would love if it was possible to make a game where gear wasn't so crucial, especially for endgame. Like have a legendary-type cap gear, but let that be good enough to take on the raids and make the hard-modes and such be more about mechanics and skill and less about needing better gear. I know when expansions come and lvl caps go up the gear has to as well, but I just think (though I might be oversimplifying it) that it's got to be possible to do something like that so you don't have to go through this rigorous gear grind once or even twice every month or so. I know that's the way most standard MMO's have been set up, but can't there be another way?!? tongue out


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dchsknight
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Unfortuntly your hope will never be. You need the tiers and such at end game. the teirs like Levels. You need to level up to experince the next grouping of content. What I think Mmo's need to do is make the Content less exclusive to raids. As in You should not get better gear just because you have 30 more people in your group or 10 or 20.

Raids to me seem to be the opposite of what the rest of a game is designed to be. The games are designed to be done in small groups. I mean in wow all instances are designed to be 5 man.

Then all of the sudden you hit 85 and it is all flip flops.

Maybe what should happen is that groups should be bigger for weaker gear. Then with skill and mechanics you can provide encounters that limit the amount of people. LIKE the Challenge modes in Wow those are epic and the rewards are sick. so maybe raids should at the lowest tier, the easiest, allow up to 40 people and then as the group gets stronger and better break them up so now that 40 man is now 4 10 man raids, and then 8 5 man raids.

There has to be stuff to keep your attention and Raids are the tried and true method of it, but I think they alienate a large population because not ever one has the time or energy to ordinate a 20+person group for a video game. I also do not think there should be a random drop chance. If you participate in a raid you get something. and not just gold, something useful. I can then see the limit how many times you raid in a week to balance that, but at least people know if you stick it out you get goodies for it.


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dchsknight
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re: Just a Random Thought About General MMO's

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But I also like the way you think!


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Wardogm
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There are games that are making an effort to change this, but they run into the criticism that there "isn't enough to do" because we've seen a whole generation of MMO players now raised on the treadmill approach that replaced actual world-building and story telling for an excuse to keep people paying $15 a month. This has created an ADD gamer base that cannot function without a carrot on a stick prodding them to their next shiny epic purple.

People claim that they want something different, but the numbers don't lie. The average gamer is far too happy to accept the instant gratification of "achievements" and "epics" and not willing enough to actually get into the world and enjoy being a part of it without 1)phat lewts! or 2)ganking everything in sight because "there's nothing else to do between raid cooldowns."

GW2 has done a decent job in many regards, though I feel that the "personal story" part of the game lacked...And that was basically the part that was most supposed to grab us. The Secret World also avoids the gear grind really well and is a very fun game, though certainly of a mature bent.


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RedeemedJedi7
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I couldn't agree more. I think that wide-spread problem of those "ADD people" whip through content to get to the "endgame" and then since it didn't take long, and they already have their "shiny's" they complain at a "lack of content." I know everybody plays at their own pace, but I more often see people playing to get through the lvling content not realizing that that content is the main stuff of the game that's supposed to be enjoyed. I may be one of those "completionists" but I believe that the game has all that stuff in it to be played and enjoyed so that you don't get to cap only a month or two after the content's released, and then find yourself bored because you've gotten all the "shiny's" and have nothing else to do.

Though, there are some players that just get through the content faster than others and still do it all. But I'm just agreeing with Abel a majority of players by the way they play prefer the model that exists, though they might complain about it.


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re: Just a Random Thought About General MMO's

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RedeemedJedi7 wrote:
Though, there are some players that just get through the content faster than others and still do it all. But I'm just agreeing with Abel a majority of players by the way they play prefer the model that exists, though they might complain about it.



"And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat"

People have been complaining about dev creations since the start!! We gripe till we get it and then gripe that we got it!
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re: Re: Just a Random Thought About General MMO's

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RedeemedJedi7 wrote:
From being kind of burnt out lately in SWTOR because of the daily/gear grind I just got this sudden desire to wish I could make games so I could make an MMO whose end game wasn't get the first tier to do the first lvl of raid, then rinse and repeat as you lvl in the difficulty. This goes for pvp as well. I think that Guild Wars 2 has less emphasis on this but I would love if it was possible to make a game where gear wasn't so crucial, especially for endgame. Like have a legendary-type cap gear, but let that be good enough to take on the raids and make the hard-modes and such be more about mechanics and skill and less about needing better gear. I know when expansions come and lvl caps go up the gear has to as well, but I just think (though I might be oversimplifying it) that it's got to be possible to do something like that so you don't have to go through this rigorous gear grind once or even twice every month or so. I know that's the way most standard MMO's have been set up, but can't there be another way?!? tongue out


To quote Einstein...

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"

Renic I support you man! You could always design a halo type mmo.. with the above in mind...


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re: Just a Random Thought About General MMO's

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Play fps games against me, I need more targets.
Talyc'jatne
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re: Just a Random Thought About General MMO's

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j0sty wrote:
Play fps games against me, I need more targets.


Being a hardcore FPS'r, I got burnt out on the FPS genre. CoD...what is it now, 10?Battlefield 3....soon to be Battlefield 4. Counter-Strike Global Offensive was just a rehash of CS:S and CS...

Even tried different games such as Natural Selection 2. Unfortunately, community for me is big, and it seems that class A titles are the only ones getting the communities.

Also about FPS: I don't pay $60 for a game that's a port from a console. Got tired of that.

That's why when I saw SWToR go F2P, it tested it. And fell in love. But now elder game and 2.0 has killed it for me. When a development company is more concerned about "new content" (really just rehashed and more difficult of the same thing) rather than maintenance and support, you know the ship you are on is starting to sink. Whether or not you go down with the ship is up to you. But from what I have been seeing on the forums lately, most of us are getting burnt out with SWToR and its issues.
dchsknight
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re: Just a Random Thought About General MMO's

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I disagree... One of the most successful MMO's, Whether we want to admit it or not, Wow has had bugs for years.

Blizzard was successful because of Content. Games die when there is no new content. bugs will get fixed but if you have nothing to keep the attention of the customer, games die...


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Talyc'jatne
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I agree with you to an extent, Dutchess.

What I am referring to are the bugs and lag issues that have been there since launch. I apologize, for i mispoke, or didn't speak clear enough.

The lack of foresight this team has is also discouraging. They kill off all low population servers, but now the servers lag hardcore. If you do a tracert and ping to the server IP address, you will see what I am talking about.

What needs to happen is Bioware needs to get a TEST team to test ALL possiblities of use. I learned about this in Computer Science 101. Best way to test for bugs? Play dumb. Run the app that you create as if you have never touched a computer before.

Seems like a lot of the "bugs" are because they assume that people won't do something, and they don't test it. Prime example was hybrid classes pre-2.0. Due to their tunneled thought processes, when 2.0 rolled out, they remade the skill trees so hybrid classes were less viable.

Ask any pvp shadow/assassin, and they can tell you about it.

Keep in mind, however, I love the game prior to level cap. Its fun, entertaining, and you have many ways to avoid the bugs.
dchsknight
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re: Just a Random Thought About General MMO's

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I believe that getting rid of hybrid builds is a good thing...


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Talyc'jatne
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re: Just a Random Thought About General MMO's

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Some do, some don't. I used to think like that myself. But then I realized what they are doing is essentially telling me how to play my class, which kills it for me. Takes away all the creativity of running a certain class.

Thats why I chose not to re-roll a shadow, because I knew that hybrids would be gone. Back in 1.7, I was running like 5 different builds for different situations on my shadow. I tanked, dps'd, off tanked, had two or three builds for pvp.... It was amazingly fun.
SaintVassago
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re: Just a Random Thought About General MMO's

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Minecraft is a good MMO.

Just sayin'.


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RedeemedJedi7
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re: Just a Random Thought About General MMO's

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Wow. didn't realize the discussion would get all technical. I do agree with Renic, though--I know, Renic, I need to let you do all my thinking for me. The problem is, I don't think about that. wink I think we find so many things to complain about, we forget the things we like about it. Sure, noticing bugs and bringing them to the attention of the devs is a good thing, but harping on them and complaining doesn't change them. All in all, if you like the game overall, play it. If not, don't. I've gotten burnt out a little. I've taken small breaks, but I'm still going to stick with it. I might not do as much end-game stuff, but there's plenty of stuff to do: classes, character slots, and story-lines since choice is such an integral part of this particular gaming experience so it has so much more replay value than other MMO's I've played in the past.

But I also catch myself in the complaining about bugs and other problems (though most of the time it's AFTER it's left my mouth). because I can't begin to put myself in the shoes of the devs and other people working on the game constantly, having to run the game, deal with players who are hardly ever happy with anything you do, etc. Does SWTOR have problems? Yeah! Do I like everything they've done with 2.0 or any of the other patches before for that matter? No! Am I going to? No! Should I complain about it, though? No! It doesn't do any good. If I don't like it, I should stop playing.

And Vass, Minecraft almost ate my life away


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