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Talyc'jatne
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So I have been hearing a lot lately about these so called men that are afraid to embrace their natural God-given emotions and abilities that its making me sick....

I read this book a few years ago and it changed my outlook on life in general. I used to be a push over, let people walk all over me, because I thought I should "turn the other cheek." After reading this book, it changed my outlook on life as a man.

I recommend this book for all the men in this guild. Its a very good read.

John Eldredge's "Wild at Heart"
http://www.amazon.com/Wild-Heart-Revised-Updated-Discovering/dp/1400200393[/u]
Talyc'jatne
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Found this on the net...

I am a soldier in the army of my God. The Lord Jesus Christ is my Commanding Officer. The Holy Scripture is my code of conduct. Faith, prayer and the Word are my weapons of warfare. I have been taught by the Holy Spirit, trained by experience, tried by adversity and tested by fire.
I am a volunteer in this army, and I am enlisted for eternity. I will not get out, sell out, be talked out or pushed out. I am faithful, reliable, capable and dependable. If my God needs me, I am there. I am a soldier. I am not a baby. I do not need to be pampered, petted, primed up, pumped up, picked up, or pepped up. I am a soldier. No one has to call me, remind me, write me, visit me, entice me or lure me. I am a soldier. I am not a wimp. I am in place, saluting my King, obeying His orders, praising His name and building His kingdom! No one has to send me flowers, gifts, food, cards or candy, or give me handouts. I do not need to be cuddled, cradled, cared for or catered to. I am committed. I cannot have my feelings hurt bad enough to turn me around. I cannot be discouraged enough to turn me aside. I cannot lose enough to cause me to quit.

When Jesus called me into this army, I had nothing. If I end up with nothing, I will still come out ahead. I will win. My God has and will continue to supply all of my need. I am more than a conqueror. I will always triumph. I can do all things through Christ. The devil cannot defeat me. People cannot disillusion me. Weather cannot weary me. Sickness cannot stop me. Battles cannot beat me. Money cannot buy me. Governments cannot silence me, and hell cannot handle me. I am a soldier. Even death cannot destroy me. For when my Commander calls me from His battlefield, He will promote me to captain and then allow me to rule with Him. I am a soldier in the army, and I’m marching claming victory. I will not give up. I will not turn around.

I am a soldier, marching heaven-bound. Here I Stand! Will you stand with me?

The army of the Lord is an all volunteer force. No one will be drafted, and those who serve will do so eagerly rather than grudgingly. That army will make up "the body of Christ" (1Corinthians 12:25-27). We are to be "a good soldier of Jesus Christ" (2 Timothy 2:3-4). We are to "put on the whole armour of God" (Ephesians 6:10-11).

Romans 13:12, "...let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light."
Know your enemy: The "wiles of the devil" is our enemy, "We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, and against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:11-12, 2 Corinthians 10:3). People are not your enemy, we are not to fight against one another. The things of the world are our enemy (James 4:4, Romans 12:2, 1 John 2:15, Luke 16:15).

A good soldier knows his weapon. We are to take the "helmet of salvation" and "the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (Ephesians 6:17). When Jesus said, "...I came not to send peace, but a sword " (Matthew 10:34), He didn't mean a literal sword. He came to set men striving for a better world with a soldiers fervor and force of spirit.

Know your weapon: "study to show thyself approved unto God" (2 Timothy 2:15). Know your weapon: we are to "search the scriptures" (Acts 17:11, Luke 16:29, Isaiah 8:20; 34:16), and compare scripture with scripture (Isaiah 28:10) to come to the Truth. "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God" (2 Corinthians 10:4). "Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him" (Proverbs 30:5, Ephesians 6:16). We are to put on the "breastplate of righteousness" (Ephesians 6:14), and our "feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace" (Ephesians 6:15).

A good soldier stays in step. We are to walk in the "same steps as Christ" (2 Corinthians 12:18, 1 Peter 2:21). And most important, our secret weapon: we are to be "praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit" (Ephesians 6:18), so that you may "open your mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel" (Ephesians 6:19). "We are more than conquerors through him that loved us" (Romans 8:37). We are "fellowsoldiers" (Philippians 2:25, Philemon 1:2).

"A man may have to die for our country, but no man must, in any exclusive sense, live for his country. He who surrenders himself without reservation to the temporal claims of a nation, or a party, or a class is rendering to Caesar that which, of all things, most emphatically belongs to God; himself." C.S. Lewis.
dchsknight
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I have to say then you missed the whole point John Eldedge's book. The point of the book was not create these hyper aggressive non-push over men. It was meant to create men who would take an active role in the church.

First and for most you are commanded as a man to be servant of Christ. Married or not we are commanded to love like Christ loved the church. This applies to our wives and every other aspect of our lives. We see this because we are to be Christ Like. How was christ? How did he treat the church?

He turned the other cheek. He went the 2nd mile. He served before he demanded. He healed and cured before salvation was given. He rebuked when he needed to. And he was zealous when he needed to be. Also note He was only Zealous like that when he dealt with Hypocritical death dealing pharisees and no other time.

And this macho man soldier schtick is bogus. You are no soldier. You are no warrior for Christ. You are a sinner and I am sinner and everyone else who calls themselves a christian is a sinner.

The bible calls us all whores because as in the book of Romans we have exchanged the truth of God for a lie. We have all exchanged the truth of God for a lie. And that is the lie the of the Devil. The problem with this Soldier business is that is exactly, the embodiment of the lie we have exchanged God's truth for. Pride, this whole rambling smacks of Pride. That is the chief of all of the lies that the devil has ever spread. Pride.

You will not be fighting anyone or anything in the second coming and no where does it say we will ever. Paul uses the analogy of the soldier because he is roman citizen writing to other Romans/greeks who would understand the analogy of the soldier because it was ingrained into their society. Even if the people he was writing too were Greek at the time, Roman owned it all so the roman soldier is an analogy that everyone would get. To take that and then apply it to your own status is fool hearty. You are going beyond what is written and have a very immature understanding of the context of what Paul is writing.

You are not a fighter. You are a sinner saved by grace through faith and adopted into son-ship. You are a co-heir with Christ and prince of the king. Christ has no want of Soldiers, he has plenty, they are called angels, he wants family which is what we are, we are his brothers and sisters through the adoption of his blood. Thus making us sons and daughters of God, not soldiers in some fiction army.


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dchsknight
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And I would suggest that instead of "Wild at Heart" you read this...

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1971430.Christ_Esteem

It is 1,000,000 times better.


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Vly
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I recently read the book "Slave" by John MacArthur. Very good book.


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Renic Ixillon

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dchsknight,

Pot calling the kettle black brother. You need to learn to disagree without sounding demeaning to others. (One I work on myself - haha)

The Lord knows I have defended you in the past when others took offense at what you were saying. I know what it is like to be taken wrong . . boy howdy!

Even if what you are trying to say is true (in your eyes or actually), you "speak the truth in love".

I can appreciate your zeal in what you believe and express. Just do not "let your good be evil spoken of", if you get my meaning.

Thobi was trying to share something that was meant to be encouraging and positive. I did not like his choice of words, such as , "So-called men" or his comments about "turning the other cheek" as a negative or unmanly thing. I can still see his intention was to encourage.

I am old school. I do not feel the need to consult anything other than the Bible to determine what being a man is all about. And in that Bible we are clearly involved in warfare and are called to"fight the good fight of faith". I understand that some of these knucklehead authors mix in unbiblical ideology while quoting scripture the entire time and if you want to point out bad thinking that is fine. Please be careful HOW you say what you say.

I think that you have good intentions and "at heart" you are a loving fellow . . just get a bit "wild" at times. :P

Being like Jesus is what being a man is, and I am sure that the desires of both your hearts are to be more like him! Let's all try giving each other the benefit of the doubt more and always try to be as gracious as we can be toward one another.
Talyc'jatne
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Sorry dchsknight, I disagree.

Ephesians 6:10-18 is my source that I am a warrior, and the more I sit idle, the more the Evil One wins. We are not to sit idle and give the devil a foothold. We should be training every day.

Jesus brought a sword to us to use against the Evil One. If we do not pick up this sword and use it, it becomes a rusted blade that has no worth.

The macho man attitude isn't what I'm talking about. I am talking about the Christians that sit idle and allow evil to take over without a fight. We should stand strong and firm. We shouldn't back down or run from the fight. The so called Christians that fight for human rights for gay rights, who vote in congressman that support abortion, that think that life is lived just by keeping the peace and not aggravating your neighbor. The idolators of money and fame, the earthly men that are fornicators of lust, THESE are the men that I am talking about.

I brought my experience into it because as Christians, we are often taught to be pacifists, to treat your neighbor nicely, etc. I would hope my neighbor keeps me on track with Jesus, opposed to turning the other way and allow me to drift wayward. A true friend does this; a false friend keeps to himself and doesn't mention anything.

We should be keeping each other accountable! Jesus flipped tables in the synagogues, and called out the wrongs of the pharisees. He will return a second time with fiery eyes and he shall judge and make war.

The prince of this world is working right now. I pray for those who sit idle and turn the other cheek and are bought away by the world.

EDIT: As I was typing, editing, etc, Renic posted. I didn't take any offense. I am enjoy constructive criticism, and I have a good poker face (especially on text-based forums), where I can play Devil's Advocate to get a thought process going, and get more valuable information for those who are not informed, or may need to see things from a different perspective.
Vly
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Thanks Renic. I had the same feelings, but failed to make the comment.


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Renic Ixillon

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OK Thobi . . your turn.

While I may not have expressed things the way DCH did, (especially about not being soldiers - we are), I agree with his taking issue with what you are calling manhood.

We are called to fight, but the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, and as scripture indicates, neither are our methods.

Wise as serpents and harmless as doves, turning the other cheek, going the second mile, being gracious and loving and tenderhearted are not being "idle". Yes, Jesus turned over tables and called people vipers . . just look at who he was talking to . . not abortionists, or gay rights activists, or anyone other than self-righteous religious folks.

"The whole need not a physician".

I think what DCH was trying to point out was that we are not called to be soldiers in a wordly way of thinking. That way that says if someone stomps on me or mine I will take them to their grave! That is worldy thinking. That is the red-blooded American male machismo mentality that is not in any way shape or form biblical.

Meekness and gentlenees and kindness are the fruits of biblical manhood. Not chest-pounding righteous indignation.

I agree that it is tragic how little resistance to evil there seems to be these days. I believe the answer lies in a different direction than misguided myths of what "being a man" is. If men would spend more time preaching the gospel and loving their neighbors and serving and showing mercy, forgiveness and yes! . . . turning the other cheek, then we might see real change . . the ONLY real change . . which is the resemption of men's souls through the preaching (living) the true gospel message. It definitely will not come from testosterone . . but by the fruits of the Spirit!

Think what you want, of couse, but I advise you to be careful of this "manhood" stuff. Most of it is not biblical no matter how good it sounds.

MY2C! Happy
Renic Ixillon

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Vly wrote:
Thanks Renic. I had the same feelings, but failed to make the comment.


Thanks Vly!

You can now find all my brilliant thoughts in my new book!

"Why Everyone but ME is Wrong and Why I am so Awesome"

by: Renic Ixillon EXTREME HUMILITY PRESS. INC.
Talyc'jatne
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You are right. We fight our spiritual warfare differently than the carnal wars of the world.
dchsknight
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I am trying to sit here and think how I am going to respond to my brothers in Christ, on this discussion. It is not easy.

I have been dealing with some inner turmoil about the church and modern Christianity and the sad sorry state it is in.

I feel upset and angry at Christians who get so in arms about Homosexuality, abortion, because it seems that, that is all they get up in arms about, because sin is sin. We are all equally damned and all equally guilty. God is not respecter of persons.

I am sorry if my posts come off as abrasive, that is not what I am intending. What I am intending is to direct attention to the word of God and not personal interpretation. I wish to direct what we think to what the bible says. You can argue with me, but you can not argue with the word of God. It is eternal and permanent. And for someone to take a personal interpretation over the word of God is denial of the word of God. Which is pride. That means that person thinks they know better then what the word of God thinks. Also The bible is very clear. There is hardly ANYTHING that needs to be interpreted in the whole of scripture. Simple study, reading of history will explain most of what the bible says clearly. The parts are prophets, Daniel, and Revelation. Of which the bible is pretty silent on.

This in today's day is taking the form of placing expectations on believers that are not present in the word of God. OR taking things out of context and applying to the church age when they were never written to us in the first place. I have heard many militant believers take the scripture in Isaiah and Ezekiel about God placing watch men over Jerusalem, and twist it to some how apply that to the Gentiles in the Church age.

So to take chapter 6 of Ephesians, and take it to mean that we are to be soldiers is really placing an expectation onto either yourself or men that God did not place. Understanding what Paul would write is a critical tool that has to be used when you read Paul's writing. You can not take everything that he says to be 100% literal. If we are to do that, then that means we are to also be athletes and be in top physical conditions and run naked in races, because that is what he referenced when he says we are to run the race to obtain an incorruptible crown in 1 Corinthians 9:25. Also that would mean that all Christians are to be single and serve God 100% at all times in missionary work. Which is not what God has called on us to be. Paul is writing a church at Ephesus and is explaining to them a concept in a way that, that church would understand it.

Ephesus was a major Greek city that was conquered by the Romans in 88 AD. It held one of the 7 wonders of the world, the Temple of Artemis, and is located off the Coast of Ionia. A soldier reference would make sense to them, they where after all a Roman and major Greek Metropolitan city.

There is absolutely 0 scripture that backs up the claim that we are to be soldiers. The only reference that the bible ever makes to being a soldier is between Paul and Timothy in 2 Timothy, where Paul tells timothy to strive with me as a Good Soldier of Christ. BUT that is between Timothy and Paul. Unless you are a pastor, that verse can not remotely apply to you. Even if you are a pastor it is still a personal edification from one teacher to his student. Not the apostle Paul to the church age. It is also in reference to how Timothy should behave as he continues in verse 4 explaining what he meant.

We can not be ignorant of what the Bible says. That is a command of God. we cannot brush stuff under the rug in a guise of Love. The bible commands that we be ready to give an answer for the hope that we have. You can not have hope in something that has no evidence. There is 0 for being a soldier, there is 100% evidence to being Co-heirs with Christ, his brothers and sisters, and God's Children.


Last edited by dchsknight on Wed May 29, 2013 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Talyc'jatne
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re: The Man's Soul

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I am curious....

What is spiritual warfare?
dchsknight
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I do not believe in Spiritual warfare. Spiritual warfare implies there is a war to be fought and there is not. Christ fought and won the war. There is no war, it is already won. The devil lost and he is a big whiny poor sport about it.

I also feel it is a term that people will use that really has no baring on the life of the Christian what so ever, because of the power of Christ. Now that does not mean we wont face opposition but to call it warfare in my opinion is just silly, we can't lose. That is not much of a war.


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RedeemedJedi7
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re: The Man's Soul

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Renic Ixillon wrote:
Vly wrote:
Thanks Renic. I had the same feelings, but failed to make the comment.


Thanks Vly!

You can now find all my brilliant thoughts in my new book!

"Why Everyone but ME is Wrong and Why I am so Awesome"

by: Renic Ixillon EXTREME HUMILITY PRESS. INC.


Can I get a special "Elija's Renic's pal" discount?


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