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Tzaz
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DISCLAIMER: Take everything here with a grain of salt. http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+with+a+grain+of+salt

Vatican UFO/last pope: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTmgmJ_PfIE

mythology/great deception stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsdgRxvB_jE

UFO demons etc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYTVSky1i1M

Hail Mary/Semiramis: http://bibletrutheducation.wordpress.com/tag/hail-mary/

I've been looking at some weird stuff recently but it's pretty interesting. I'm kind of interested on what you guys think as well.

Afterthought(nothing to do with ufos): If you read about the Whore of Babylon(Revelation) and compare the Catholic Mary worship with Semiramis(Queen of Heaven from Babylon) and the city on 7 hills called Mystery Babylon(Rome) . Things kind of start to fit together. Just thinking out loud though.
SaintVassago
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I can get caught up in this stuff easily, myself. I try my best to stay away from it as best I can. I think a lot of the "End Times" prophecy stuff gets to people's heads, and comes out all messed up. I mean, if Jesus himself said that only the Father knows, then I'm not going to assume to try and figure it out. I'll just watch for the signs, and keep my eyes focused on Jesus. I just need to know that He could be back ANY DAY. That's motivation enough, and that's all I'm really worried about; not that I fear His return, just that I fear for the eternal destiny of those around me.


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SaintVassago wrote:
I can get caught up in this stuff easily, myself. I try my best to stay away from it as best I can. I think a lot of the "End Times" prophecy stuff gets to people's heads, and comes out all messed up. I mean, if Jesus himself said that only the Father knows, then I'm not going to assume to try and figure it out. I'll just watch for the signs, and keep my eyes focused on Jesus. I just need to know that He could be back ANY DAY. That's motivation enough, and that's all I'm really worried about; not that I fear His return, just that I fear for the eternal destiny of those around me.


I have struggled with this recently myself..... am taking a break from Facebook for this very reason..... (Which is hard since I use it for work... LOL)

I am working towards getting myself whipped into shape physically and spiritually. Prayers are appreciated!!!


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Falconiusen
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SaintVassago wrote:
I can get caught up in this stuff easily, myself. I try my best to stay away from it as best I can. I think a lot of the "End Times" prophecy stuff gets to people's heads, and comes out all messed up. I mean, if Jesus himself said that only the Father knows, then I'm not going to assume to try and figure it out. I'll just watch for the signs, and keep my eyes focused on Jesus. I just need to know that He could be back ANY DAY. That's motivation enough, and that's all I'm really worried about; not that I fear His return, just that I fear for the eternal destiny of those around me.


eschatology is the study of end-times prophecy.

There is no reason to stay away.
Coming from a fellow eschatologist. One of the first things said in Revelation is

"...blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near." Rev. 1:2

I had a conversation with a friend here about eschatology. We had been taking and my statement to him was " end-times prophecy is more about Hope, encouragement, and His promises, than anything else (with the obvious exception of the letters to the seven churches). Although going though the proofs for the pre-trib rapture has showed me TONS about who Jesus is and the symbol of marriage in the Bible.

Nothing in end times prophecy should get us in a tussle (unless you aren't saved). Although It scared me when i was younger, the rapture and all that, but I didn't understand it then either (not that i claim to know everything).

as a "pre-tribber":
all these events including and after the revealing of the final "anti-christ" make no difference to us believers, were going to be gone, "caught up" as it were. The interesting part of all of this is the events before hand. We want to know when that time is going to happen, that's just human nature. God said we would not know the day or the hour, but we would know the "season." And we need to stick to that, no setting dates or anything, becuse any date we set will inherently be wrong (except for the date of the perpetual "he will come tomorrow, or today" that will be correct once. :-) ).

"But of that day and hour - Of the precise time of the fulfillment. The "general signs" of its approach have been given, as the budding of the fig-tree is a certain indication that summer is near; but "the precise time" is not indicated by these things." (Barne's notes on the Bible - http://bible.cc/matthew/24-36.htm)

Seeing the events unfolding as they were foretold a couple thousand years ago(and further, Daniel, Isaia, etc.), has always been interesting. All this persecution against Christians is encouraging to me. It shows how much closer we are to the Father saying to the Son, "go get her." I cannot wait to see the amazing marriage supper of the Lamb, and Jesus coming on his white horse, and ruling for a millennium. I cannot but watch these "signs of the time" with awe and reverence, and anxious expectation of the events to come.

Eschatology is about Hope, encouragement, and excitement. It makes me want to get about my Father's work, so others can see who He is and what He is doing.

I believe we are living in the last of the last days, and the final thing to happen is for God to give the final go-ahead to bring the church to Him.


All this being said, anything you read, has to be brought back to the Bible for validation, which is why I am very skeptical about any "commentary" of the Bible or Christian principles, that isnt from the Bible itself.


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Falconiusen wrote:
SaintVassago wrote:
I can get caught up in this stuff easily, myself. I try my best to stay away from it as best I can. I think a lot of the "End Times" prophecy stuff gets to people's heads, and comes out all messed up. I mean, if Jesus himself said that only the Father knows, then I'm not going to assume to try and figure it out. I'll just watch for the signs, and keep my eyes focused on Jesus. I just need to know that He could be back ANY DAY. That's motivation enough, and that's all I'm really worried about; not that I fear His return, just that I fear for the eternal destiny of those around me.


eschatology is the study of end-times prophecy.

There is no reason to stay away.
Coming from a fellow eschatologist. One of the first things said in Revelation is

"...blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near." Rev. 1:2

I had a conversation with a friend here about eschatology. We had been taking and my statement to him was " end-times prophecy is more about Hope, encouragement, and His promises, than anything else (with the obvious exception of the letters to the seven churches). Although going though the proofs for the pre-trib rapture has showed me TONS about who Jesus is and the symbol of marriage in the Bible.

Nothing in end times prophecy should get us in a tussle (unless you aren't saved). Although It scared me when i was younger, the rapture and all that, but I didn't understand it then either (not that i claim to know everything).

as a "pre-tribber":
all these events including and after the revealing of the final "anti-christ" make no difference to us believers, were going to be gone, "caught up" as it were. The interesting part of all of this is the events before hand. We want to know when that time is going to happen, that's just human nature. God said we would not know the day or the hour, but we would know the "season." And we need to stick to that, no setting dates or anything, becuse any date we set will inherently be wrong (except for the date of the perpetual "he will come tomorrow, or today" that will be correct once. :-) ).

"But of that day and hour - Of the precise time of the fulfillment. The "general signs" of its approach have been given, as the budding of the fig-tree is a certain indication that summer is near; but "the precise time" is not indicated by these things." (Barne's notes on the Bible - http://bible.cc/matthew/24-36.htm)

Seeing the events unfolding as they were foretold a couple thousand years ago(and further, Daniel, Isaia, etc.), has always been interesting. All this persecution against Christians is encouraging to me. It shows how much closer we are to the Father saying to the Son, "go get her." I cannot wait to see the amazing marriage supper of the Lamb, and Jesus coming on his white horse, and ruling for a millennium. I cannot but watch these "signs of the time" with awe and reverence, and anxious expectation of the events to come.

Eschatology is about Hope, encouragement, and excitement. It makes me want to get about my Father's work, so others can see who He is and what He is doing.

I believe we are living in the last of the last days, and the final thing to happen is for God to give the final go-ahead to bring the church to Him.


All this being said, anything you read, has to be brought back to the Bible for validation, which is why I am very skeptical about any "commentary" of the Bible or Christian principles, that isnt from the Bible itself.


Amen and Amen brotha!


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Wildbillkickoff
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I've studied eschatology fairly extensively for a non-pastor, and I've finally come to this conclusion: I'm not a pre-trib, post-trib, or mid-trib. I'm a pan-trib. However it all pans out, I'm ready.

However interesting, basing any part of your theology on an end times prophecy or any extra-biblical source is dangerous (just ask Harold Camping). I'm not saying these theories are wrong (I am also of the opinion that "alien abductions" are simply another demonic deception), I'm just saying that a big yellow warning sign exists here with the message "Proceed With Caution."


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RedeemedJedi7
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- Dasu - wrote:
SaintVassago wrote:
I can get caught up in this stuff easily, myself. I try my best to stay away from it as best I can. I think a lot of the "End Times" prophecy stuff gets to people's heads, and comes out all messed up. I mean, if Jesus himself said that only the Father knows, then I'm not going to assume to try and figure it out. I'll just watch for the signs, and keep my eyes focused on Jesus. I just need to know that He could be back ANY DAY. That's motivation enough, and that's all I'm really worried about; not that I fear His return, just that I fear for the eternal destiny of those around me.


I have struggled with this recently myself..... am taking a break from Facebook for this very reason..... (Which is hard since I use it for work... LOL)

I am working towards getting myself whipped into shape physically and spiritually. Prayers are appreciated!!!


This is where I've been for the last ten years. I always kind of cringe (maybe too strong a word) when I start to hear other Christians say things like "signs of the times" and "I feel like now more than ever things are steering toward the end..." Now I'm not saying that signs aren't around or the "end times" couldn't possibly be close, but I steer clear from being consumed or even putting stock in that stuff simply because it's not supposed to be our focus. Our focus should be the lost and like Vassago said, being prepared for it to happen at any time. Look throughout history and you'll see plenty of "signs" and tragedies that could've been interpreted as "signs of the times" and if you read the pastors, Theologians, and Christian thinkers of the time, they were focused on discovering God and getting closer to Him, not preaching "The end is here! The end is here!" Is our country itself decaying? Yes. But so did Rome and every other "world power" over the last 2000 years. History is cyclical. Now should I be ready? Yes. Is the world in turmoil? Yes. All the more reason for me to heed Jesus' words at the end of Matthew to spread the "Good News" in my community, my state, my country, and then to the world. If I focus on that, I think I'm preparing for Jesus to come, and that's all I need worry about.


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RedeemedJedi7 wrote:

This is where I've been for the last ten years. I always kind of cringe (maybe too strong a word) when I start to hear other Christians say things like "signs of the times" and "I feel like now more than ever things are steering toward the end..." Now I'm not saying that signs aren't around or the "end times" couldn't possibly be close, but I steer clear from being consumed or even putting stock in that stuff simply because it's not supposed to be our focus.


I'd like to mention That our focus should be on Him, and His return, but also as we see how the world is going for example:
Like 17:26-30: (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2017:26-30&version=NASB)

26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 [a]It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; 29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and [b]brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be [c]just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.

It is good for us to know what is going on. But more importantly Since we have an understanding of everything coming to an end soon, it should give us a bit of a push or maybe better stated, a sense of urgency, to being about our Father's work.
So that we are out there creating disciples, and bringing people into the loving arms of our Father.

RedeemedJedi7 wrote:

Our focus should be the lost and like Vassago said, being prepared for it to happen at any time. Look throughout history and you'll see plenty of "signs" and tragedies that could've been interpreted as "signs of the times" and if you read the pastors, Theologians, and Christian thinkers of the time, they were focused on discovering God and getting closer to Him, not preaching "The end is here! The end is here!


Each generation has had its people that have cried the end is neigh, but Jesus said that would happen. another example the book titled: "88 reason why the rapture will be in 1988." Anyone who says they know the day of Christs return or the end of the world does not know their Bible. Harold Camping among others.

Matthew 24:5-10
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024:5-10&version=NASB
5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the [a]Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.


Like I said though, Eschatology is more about hope and looking towards his coming than anything else.

RedeemedJedi7 wrote:

Is our country itself decaying? Yes. But so did Rome and every other "world power" over the last 2000 years. History is cyclical. Now should I be ready? Yes. Is the world in turmoil? Yes. All the more reason for me to heed Jesus' words at the end of Matthew to spread the "Good News" in my community, my state, my country, and then to the world. If I focus on that, I think I'm preparing for Jesus to come, and that's all I need worry about.


the Different major world powers are part of eschatology,
remember the statue of different metals? (Daniel 2) Those are representative the the different world kingdoms. the Babylonian, the Medo-Persian, the Greek, the roman, and the "revived" Roman empire (yet to come). Gold, silver, bronze, iron, iron mixed with clay. Each of these empires didn't last much longer than 200 years. The interest comes from watching whats going on in the world and seeing that final empire come to fruition.


Wildbillkickoff wrote:

However interesting, basing any part of your theology on an end times prophecy or any extra-biblical source is dangerous (just ask Harold Camping). I'm not saying these theories are wrong (I am also of the opinion that "alien abductions" are simply another demonic deception), I'm just saying that a big yellow warning sign exists here with the message "Proceed With Caution."


I agree with you on the Alien bit.
Realize the rapture and end times is NOT an extra-Biblical piece of theology.
the pre-trib rapture is classified as a C3 Rule of affinity:

#########################################
The Rules of Affinity:
(taken from: http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/documents/articles/106/106.htm?x=x)

C1 = a doctrinal proposition based on a straightforward quotation of Scripture (e.g. special creation; justification by faith; the deity of Christ; the virgin birth; the inspiration of Scripture; the pervasiveness of sin among the human race; the one salvation through Jesus; the bodily resurrection; the physical return of Christ; heaven and hell, etc.)

C2 = a proposition based on a strong inference from the witness of several C1 passages combined, thus producing an inevitable doctrinal conclusion (e.g. the Trinity; the future kingdom of God on earth; inerrancy of Scripture; believer’s only baptism; men only eldership, etc.)

Please note well. C1 and C2 formulations, while they may be nuanced and improved, are non-negotiable. The weight of direct and/or strong scriptural inference in their favor requires that they be held as “fundamental” Bible doctrines.*

—————————————————————————————

C3 = a doctrinal proposition based upon a plausible inference from the shared witness of the cumulative direction of C1 and C2 texts of Scripture (e.g. the pre-trib rapture; baptism by immersion; single or plural elders; seminal headship of Adam, etc.)

N.B. C3 formulations are inferences to the best explanation based on the evidence of various scriptures. As such, they are defeasible. That is, they are open to being overturned if better scriptural arguments for another position can be brought forth.

Because C1 through C3 formulations can be measured against the clear statements of Scripture without the need for inferring one doctrine from another, these are the only “safe” categories from within which to construct a biblically based evangelical theology.
#########################################


Now, I completely agree with the taking extreme care with extra-biblical writings. I am of the mindset (with very few exceptions) that any writings other than the Bible itself is not something I want to read. as People err, and the Bible does not. Even a small inconsistency can lead someone down a rabbit path.


Theres probably more i should say, or want to say but now im tired of writing, lost my train of thought, and need to get back to work.


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RedeemedJedi7
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Wow, Falc. Forgive me if I didn't read all of that.


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J.R.83
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My mother and I have been digging in to this same kinda stuff latly. (she more then I). Theres just been too much lining up the last hundred years or so(last 20 have been a real kicker), too much has happened for us to ignore it and just go about our day to day.

As was stated earlier, its not about fear but being prepared and knowing that everything is going to go sideways. How to adapt and overcome. Its not about knowing what day what is going to happen or when but how and why. As well as where and who our salvation is in.

As a 'post-tribber' I believe that we the church are going to get to ride though the storm and not avoid it. Without the body, there is no reason for God to not just nuke the planet. Such as with Sodom.

Ive also come face to face with a few demons myself, seen a few different ones and it wasnt untill recently that the light came on about them being the ones causing all the E.T. stuff. They come in all sizes, shapes and forms and can and do effect the physical world. Same with all this ghost sightings and stuff.

With respect to Noah, there were fallen angle/ human hybrids walking around at that time.

"And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God (Benei HaʼElōhīm)saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants(Nephilim) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown". (Gen 6:1-4 KJV)


Men such as Goliath were part of those, for example.

There has been alot of talk going around latly about the return of the Nephilim. There are many in the political and ruling class that count themselves as their decendiants. It goes hand in hand with much of this 'esoteric knowledge' and other clap trap many are subscribing to as of late.

As I said, this isnt about fear, but preparedness. Know who, what, where and how the enemy will come from and knowing who will be there to guide and protect us.
mm0nk
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I like to surf youtube listening to different preachers and I found this vid interesting and informative.

Talyc'jatne
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Falconiusen
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The Jewish Wedding, and Jesus and the Bridegroom and the church as the Bride,
and Israel a bride, is one of the main themes throughout the Bible.

Apparently I like long posts. sorry guys, But there was not youtube, playlist for these.

This is the primary reason I believe the pre-trib rapture:


















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RedeemedJedi7
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Whether it's due to my tendency not to take sides on disputable matters or just my belief on the insignificance of "how it's going to happen," I steer away from believing the Second Coming is going to happen a certain way and prescribing to a doctrine on the matter, other than adopting that it will come "like a thief in the night" which means what I need focus on is that it could happen now or hundreds of years from now, but the urgency of the Great Commission remains the same for me.


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RedeemedJedi7 wrote:
... other than adopting that it will come "like a thief in the night" which means what I need focus on is that it could happen now or hundreds of years from now, but the urgency of the Great Commission remains the same for me.


This is half the point of Biblical eschatology. The other half is to give us hope in His glorious return.


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